Thursday, June 16, 2005
Gulag <-> Gitmo <-> Auschwitz
I don't get why some people can't make a point without being absurd or so hateful that they lose any chance of informing or persuading people.
A prime example is Richard Durbin's comparison (here) of Guantanamo Bay to Nazi concentration camps and Stalin's gulags. I am totally there when it comes to loathing inhumane treatment for anyone at all, even 'bad guys', even if they deserve to be punished or removed from society. Doesn't Durbin study history? Nazi 'camps' 'succeeded' in killing tens of thousands each day within a system designed to exterminate entire peoples (almost 10 million). Stalin's horrific hell holes (a/k/a gulags) existed within a similar system but he also got his 'jollies' by torturing prisoners (almost 15 million). Guantanamo Bay is a prison but not a death or torture chamber; it may treat prisoners less than ideally but it is not killing anyone, systematically or even accidentally or even accidentally on purpose. Furthermore, its accommodations are sparse but clean (see picture here). It's simply absurd and insane and stupid to draw any comparison at all and it completely eliminates any chance of convincing anyone to listen, let alone change their mind.
And it may seem beside the point, but Guantanamo prisoners are suspected of being (at least ideological) participants in a violent conflict which so far has killed over three thousand civilian Americans. Nazi and Stalin prisoners were imprisoned and killed because of who they were not what they did. There's a chasm of difference there.
A prime example is Richard Durbin's comparison (here) of Guantanamo Bay to Nazi concentration camps and Stalin's gulags. I am totally there when it comes to loathing inhumane treatment for anyone at all, even 'bad guys', even if they deserve to be punished or removed from society. Doesn't Durbin study history? Nazi 'camps' 'succeeded' in killing tens of thousands each day within a system designed to exterminate entire peoples (almost 10 million). Stalin's horrific hell holes (a/k/a gulags) existed within a similar system but he also got his 'jollies' by torturing prisoners (almost 15 million). Guantanamo Bay is a prison but not a death or torture chamber; it may treat prisoners less than ideally but it is not killing anyone, systematically or even accidentally or even accidentally on purpose. Furthermore, its accommodations are sparse but clean (see picture here). It's simply absurd and insane and stupid to draw any comparison at all and it completely eliminates any chance of convincing anyone to listen, let alone change their mind.
And it may seem beside the point, but Guantanamo prisoners are suspected of being (at least ideological) participants in a violent conflict which so far has killed over three thousand civilian Americans. Nazi and Stalin prisoners were imprisoned and killed because of who they were not what they did. There's a chasm of difference there.
Permalink | 
| posted by jau at 11:00 AM
Curtis Gale Weeks — at 4:50 PM, June 19, 2005:
| posted by jau at 11:00 AM
2 more:
Curtis Gale Weeks — at 4:50 PM, June 19, 2005:
I agree with Moze.
At the same time, using the Durbin statements (which themselves have been a tad misinterpreted, it would seem) in order to turn a blind eye to what has happened at Gitmo doesn't solve the problem.
For one, the air of secrecy adds to the paranoia and to the likelihood of more accusations of mistreatment, as well as to the negative impressions much of the world has of current U.S. policy. I realize that interrogations cannot be broadcast, for security reasons, but there should be no reason why some prisoners couldn't be interviewed by journalists or the base toured by journalists -- or at least, Senators on intelligence committees (Republican and Democrat) could be given guided tours and allowed to witness interrogations. Something beyond the "something to hide" air the Administration maintains.
I, for one, don't think prisoners should be chained hand-and-foot to the floor in their own feces and urine, etc.
At the same time, using the Durbin statements (which themselves have been a tad misinterpreted, it would seem) in order to turn a blind eye to what has happened at Gitmo doesn't solve the problem.
For one, the air of secrecy adds to the paranoia and to the likelihood of more accusations of mistreatment, as well as to the negative impressions much of the world has of current U.S. policy. I realize that interrogations cannot be broadcast, for security reasons, but there should be no reason why some prisoners couldn't be interviewed by journalists or the base toured by journalists -- or at least, Senators on intelligence committees (Republican and Democrat) could be given guided tours and allowed to witness interrogations. Something beyond the "something to hide" air the Administration maintains.
I, for one, don't think prisoners should be chained hand-and-foot to the floor in their own feces and urine, etc.
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Whatever abuses of civil rights might be happenning at Guantanimo Bay, it is not the Holocaust. Saying it is both cheapens the past and desensitizes the world, leaving the door open to another (real) Holocaust.
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